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SAC-SWG-ENUM  April 2019

SAC-SWG-ENUM April 2019

Subject:

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: CR to add IEDs

From:

David Ronnfeldt <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

SAC-SWG-ENUM <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 28 Apr 2019 22:23:59 -0400

Content-Type:

multipart/mixed

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (137 lines) , CR03815A - CR to add IEDs.xlsx (137 lines)

After reviewing the feedback, here is an update for the CR.

Rev A - moved items from munitions to cultural features.

Regards,

David Ronnfeldt

Simulation Standards Officer
Australian Defence Simulation and Training Centre
Joint Operations Command
10 Whyalla Street (FYD-01-21)
PO Box 7940
Canberra BC ACT 2610
Ph: +61 (0)2 6266 1669
Mb: +61 (0)439 185 513

From: SAC-SWG-ENUM <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Marrou, Lance R.
Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2019 10:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: CR to add IEDs

This CR needs some discussion before approval or rejection. This CR proposes:

2.8.0.3.5 Improvised Explosive Device (IED) (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.1 IED, Box (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.2 IED, Dead Animal (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.3 IED, Rock (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.4 IED, Trash Can (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.5 IED, Improvised 500 lb Terrorist Bomb (Pending)

Which is somewhat aligned with a previous entry at 2.8.0.3.3 for PVC-based pipe bombs.

Note, however, there’s also some items in the Cultural Features area because most IEDs don’t resemble munitions and aren’t fired like munitions.

5.1.0.5.30 Exposed Ordnance
5.1.0.5.30.1 Exposed Ordnance, 155mm
5.1.0.5.30.2 AT Mine (M15) with Fuse
5.1.0.5.30.3 Mortars (3 x 82mm) with Fuse
5.1.0.5.30.4 Parcel with Fuse, Small
5.1.0.5.30.5 Pressure Plate IED, Wooden (.36m x .1m)
5.1.0.5.30.6 Soda Can
5.1.0.5.30.6.1 Soda Can w/ Fuse

For DIS, I had submitted PCRs to add an extended appearance record (because 32 bits is insufficient) that included a field indicating whether an IED was present. In this way, basically anything currently in the enumeration set could be an IED…just like real life. I also updated the Capabilities record and Object General Appearance.

My opinion is that this CR should be rejected in favor of the more generic approach. So, if you want a trash can IED, then use 5.1.0.5.19 or one of its children, then use extended appearance and/or capabilities to identify that it’s an IED. I think this approach works because most of the time the other system will not know it’s an IED until it explodes. The appearance field does have the ability to show the IED so that you can simulate things like exposed wires and such, if that is part of your training use case.

Lance Marrou, Leidos, [log in to unmask]
12901 Science Drive, Orlando, Florida USA 32826, o: 407.243.3710



-----Original Message-----
From: SAC-SWG-ENUM <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of David Ronnfeldt
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 9:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: CR to add IEDs

OK then, how about this:

5.1.0.32 Improvised Explosive Device (IED)
5.1.0.32.1 IED, Box
5.1.0.32.2 IED, Dead Animal
5.1.0.32.3 IED, Rock
5.1.0.32.4 IED, Trash Can
5.1.0.32.5 IED, Improvised 500 lb Terrorist Bomb

And if you don't think that a trash can is a munition.... then you haven't tried to launch one into orbit before (lots of fun I can tell you)

Regards,

David Ronnfeldt

Simulation Standards Officer
Australian Defence Simulation and Training Centre Joint Operations Command Annex, 10 Whyalla Street (FYD-GF-21) PO Box 7940 Canberra BC ACT 2610
Ph: +61 (0)2 6266 1669
Fax: +61 (0)2 6266 1780



-----Original Message-----
From: SAC-SWG-ENUM <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Marrou, Lance R.
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2018 2:58 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: CR to add IEDs

There's an Exposed Ordnance item (5.1.0.5.30) for things like this, too. I don't know if a trash can is a munition.

Note also 5.1.0.22.1.4.

Lance Marrou, Leidos, [log in to unmask]
12901 Science Drive, Orlando, Florida USA 32826, o: 407.243.3710


-----Original Message-----
From: SAC-SWG-ENUM <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of David Ronnfeldt
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2018 4:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: CR to add IEDs

OK,

Need some more discussion on this one.

Currently have them listed as:

2.8.0.3.5 Improvised Explosive Device (IED) (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.1 IED, Box (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.2 IED, Dead Animal (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.3 IED, Rock (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.4 IED, Trash Can (Pending)
2.8.0.3.5.5 IED, Improvised 500 lb Terrorist Bomb (Pending)

This does align with a previously approved entry being:

2.8.0.3.3 Pipe Bomb, PVC
2.8.0.3.3.1 Pipe Bomb, PVC, Small (.04m)
2.8.0.3.3.2 Pipe Bomb, PVC, Medium
2.8.0.3.3.3 Pipe Bomb, PVC, Large (.1m)
2.8.0.3.3.10 Pipe Bomb, PVC, Bundled (3 x .1m)

The original requester would prefer to have them listed as 2.8.xxxxx as this works with their existing entries.

If there are no further comments on this, I would like to include this CR in the v25 release.

Regards,

David Ronnfeldt


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